Transcript

George: (00:00:00)
When folded the Pixel 9 Pro Fold is like the Pixel 9 Pro with the same display size and nearly the same thickness and it's significantly lighter than the original Pixel Fold. So it's like a phone and then when you open it, it becomes something else altogether, an eight inch tablet with a largest display on a phone that you can kind of fit in your pocket. So you get best of both worlds.

Rachid: (00:00:22)
Today we're welcoming back George Wong, the product manager of the brand New Pixel 9 Pro fold. What does it take to make our newest foldable phone even thinner and lighter than before?

Rachid: (00:00:43) George is great to have you back on the podcast. So last time we spoke it was the Pixel Fold that came out for the very, very first time. So now it's the second generation. It's less than a year on actually what changed? How would you say Pixel 9 Pro Fold is different compared to its first generation?

George: (00:00:54)
Great question. So we went back to the drawing board multiple times to reimagine what a foldable could be. And we took a different lens on it. And so let's start with it closed. When folded, the Pixel 9 Pro Fold is like the Pixel 9 Pro with the same display size and nearly the same thickness. And it's significantly lighter than the original Pixel Fold, so it's like a phone.

And then when you open it becomes something else altogether. An eight inch tablet with the largest display on a phone that you can kind of fit in your pocket so you get the best of both worlds. And then when you add in all of the amazing new features, our users will love just all the great things that you can do with this phone, including the camera and the AI features and the foldable unique features that we'll get into today.

Rachid: (00:01:41)
So maybe we can just get into the name first, because we had Pixel Fold, people were calling it, probably they're gonna come out with a Pixel Fold 2. How's the Pixel 9 Pro Fold? How did that, sorry for the joke, unfold?

George: (00:01:54)
I love the joke because I use it often. So do it all the time you want.

So we put so much into this device. We've really reimagined what it could be. And so when we stepped back and we thought about what we're bringing here from the completely redesigned body and hinge where focus was really on quality, durability and thinness, the amazing new displays, the eight inch super Actua display.

And like everything in between because we've really re-engineered all the components that go in to make this amazing device. And then when you include all of the new features that we talked about, we just thought that Pixel 9 Pro Fold would be a great name for this device.

Rachid: (00:02:36)
Foldables haven't been around for that long. I think there are many people wondering, is that even something I should consider? Because they're just not sure if it's something for them. So what would you tell people who are maybe not even considering a foldable phone? Who is it for and what will they get from it?

George: (00:02:52)
Yeah, so we ask this question to ourselves a lot and how can we make it for the people. And we really do think a device like this is made for so many people and that people would love it if they understood how much it brings.

So like I said, what we've seen is that people, interestingly, have many interactions with their phone, but a lot of them are short. You know, I want to change the alarm, I want to send a quick text message to a loved one. And those are quick interactions. And so we don't want to change that because that's what you do day in, day out. So you get the phone aspect of it.

But when you unfold it, that's where the magic really happens. And we see that people love large displays. They love getting immersed. They love being productive. They love being entertained, kicking back and relaxing. And so you get the best of both worlds really there in such that you can have it on the go and do the things that you need to do really quickly.

Rachid: (00:03:42)
One thing I'm really curious about is if you compare the Pixel 9 Pro Fold to the original Pixel Fold. So there are changes. How many of those changes did you come up with already very early, maybe even before the original Pixel Fold came out? And how much of it is as a result of user feedback?

George: (00:04:00)
Great question. So hardware timelines are very long. And so we always have a running list of things. And we also do internal testing when you get feedback from what we call our dog fooders who provide that. And so we have early indications of areas that need to be improved.

And so also some things that just don't make the cut either, what other the technologies there or the design specifically doesn't meet our quality bar. And so those don’t go by the wayside, We always carry those onwards. And so a lot of that is known, but you know, when we hear something loud and clear from our users through a previous launch, we will relook at it and try to do the best we can to try to get that

Rachid: (00:04:38)
So on the inside of the device, it shares a lot of things with all the other phones that we launched at the Made by Google event this year. For example, you make quite the jump when it comes to the Tensor chip in there, going from G2 to G4, if I'm not mistaken. How hard was it to sort of skip a generation and then be on the same page as the other devices?

George: (00:05:00)
It definitely took some engineering from our great team, but our focus was to ensure that we brought all the capabilities and ensured all the features that came along so that we did actually need Tensor G4. And then additionally, all of the things that you need for a foldable that are different from a regular phone, a hinge, a secondary display, and obviously all the things in between were really difficult, but we really feel like we nailed it here and created something so amazing for our users.

Rachid: (00:05:27)
So you mentioned the hinge and the display of course that folds in too on the inside are the main differences with a regular phone. So if we look at the hinge, and I remember from our conversation last year we talked extensively about the hinge. It's something I know you're very passionate about. How did the hinge change and why did it need a change for this generation of the fold?

George: (00:05:46)
It's a completely redesigned hinge and the drivers were particularly two-fold, no pun intended. It's specifically to drive increased and improved durability. We want to make sure that this is a robust device. And then also we really drove thinness in this device. It's about one and a half millimeters thinner than the Pixel Fold, which was already super thin. And to do that really starts at the hinge to drive thinness in the whole system. And then like I said before, you have to re-engineer everything else to kind of match that. So it was a complete design and engineering effort.

Rachid: (00:06:18)
So it is indeed a very very thin device. How hard is it to make it that thin? Were you sometimes maybe wishing you were working on a regular phone?

George: (00:06:27)
It's super challenging. I know lots of conversations with the design and engineering team like, why do we have to do this? Can we do this? You know, also a lot of pushing back because we're really pushing on the limits here. But we heard loud and clear from users and we knew that this was a pain point, that they wanted the best of both worlds, like I said before.

They wanted a phone that was thin like a phone, but also wanted a foldable that had that large display. And to do that is really to try to take out the thickness and the weight of that and give a form factor that's appealing to users. So really, really perfected and caused us to really think through how we lay out, how we architect, how we design components, just front to back on how we do things here. So just a great achievement by the team.

Rachid: (00:07:09)
You also mentioned weight, which came down quite a bit compared to the previous generation. So is that sort of maybe making one or two key components quite a bit lighter, or are you just looking for every gram on every component to drop the weight?

George: (00:07:22)
Yeah, so we were pretty methodical here. The first thing that we ended up doing was just like, what are the low hanging fruits? And then we went after those. But then to get the nearly 10 % reduction that we did here in weight, you actually have to go line item by line item and see where the opportunities are and then do the trade off analysis. Does that make sense? Does it impact any other areas? And the other way that we achieved this was looking at materials as well. How can utilize new and advanced materials that both improve durability but also are lightweight.

Rachid: (00:07:52)
Okay, so we talked about thinness, we talked about the weight, we talked about the hinge. Now, sort of the elephant in the room is the foldable display itself. Could you tell us a little bit about what changed compared to last year

George: (00:08:04)
Yeah, the foldable display, I could talk about this for hours. The foldable display is a real masterpiece. Like I said, it's an amazing 8 -inch screen that is 80 % brighter than the original Pixel Fold with colors that are extremely vivid and eye -catching. We really optimized it for the viewing experience such that you can do so many things from entertainment, productivity, multitasking, which we saw a lot of users do on the original Pixel Fold, and even gaming and more.

And so I don't only want to spend time on the foldable display, but we've also upgraded the external display because it's no slouch either. It's a comfortable 6.3 inch display that, like I said, is like any other phone. And it really has high brightness and amazing contrast in color.

But to your other question of what else has changed, well, we've updated the aspect ratio for both of these displays to really improve on the whole viewing experience.

So the big foldable display has actually been optimized to provide a better viewing experience across the board. And we've worked with apps and developers to do some amazing things. One that I'm super excited about, and you'll see me on Sunday in September doing this, is NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube, or other games where you can kind of multi-view, where you can watch four games, game streams concurrently, and potentially keep tabs the other things that you're doing in your life, a chat group with your friend, fantasy sports, things like that. So just like a lot of opportunities and I'm really excited to see what users do with this display.

Rachid: (00:09:31)
Amazing. I think another change compared to last year is that the device now opens fully flat.

George: (00:09:36)
Yeah, so we focused on ensuring that we can bring smoothness across the whole opening range. And you and I talked about this last year a lot. We spent a huge amount of time just really perfecting that, what we call the torque feeling as users open it. And then the additional area that we spent a lot of time here was having sufficient pop at the end, 180, such that it went straight to 180 and it was effortless at that point. Really giving you that signal that, I'm there and I'm in tablet mode as we call it.

So a lot of engineering effort to kind of balance those two constraints because they're actually working against each other. And so we've built things in the factory. We've looked at many different devices to kind of see where we could optimize

Rachid: (00:10:21)
I imagine just folding it open all the time is satisfying in itself without even using the device.

George: (00:10:27)
Well, it's so funny because as we went through development and I've been known for this around the office, I'll get a new device to look at and test. And the first thing I'll do is I will put it super close to my face just to kind of look at the whole range of motion and see how it feels and kind of listen to it as well. if you don't know me and you walk by me, it looks really awkward, but you'll understand the method to my madness. If we have a conversation.

Rachid: (00:10:50)
We can't have a conversation about a Pixel phone without talking about cameras, right? So how did the camera system change this year in the foldable

George: (00:10:59)
So just like all other Pixel phones, we spent so much time ensuring that we're bringing the best Pixel camera experience to the Pixel 9 Pro Fold. We're so excited that once again, we're bringing the best foldable camera. And we've really made that possible by this new ultra thin advanced triple rear camera system.

Not only is it amazing hardware, but it's kind of paired with this amazing software. Features like Add Me that you'll hear on our other phones as well, and Zoom Enhance, and Panorama. Just amazing. But also pro-level features like Pro Controls and Video Boost are made possible.

And then the ones that I love are obviously the unique foldable features like rear camera selfie, which we talked about a lot last year, dual screen preview, or the Made You Look feature, which is getting a lot of great feedback.

Rachid: (00:11:52)
We were just talking about, you know, why would you want the foldable? And I think if you'd show many parents just Made You Look, they'd probably want the foldable. But for people who haven't seen that yet, could you describe the feature and how it came to be and what it's for?

George: (00:12:06)
Yeah, absolutely. it all started with that age old problem. How can I get my child to look at the camera so I can just take this one shot and not be here for 10 minutes? And to solve that problem, we got creative and we really put this amazing device to work. So with Made You Look, the setup is you can now put an animated character on the front screen to kind of attract and hold the child's attention or the adult's attention. It worked like magic on my family. And it's not only visual, but there's also amazing sound effects that really helped too. And so that actually gets kids' attention, I find, even more than the visual sometimes.

I found that Made You Look works like magic on my two-year-old. And a funny story, two days ago, my wife was traveling. Right now I'm trying to send her some photos. And I have many devices because I'm obviously working on phones and I had a Pixel, a previous Pixel device. And so my child wouldn't look. And so I'm like, I need to go get me. So I ran across the room and picked that up and like magic caught their attention and got that perfect shot.

Rachid: (00:13:11)
Amazing. And those animated characters, just to be sure, appear on the front screen, but then because you have the device folded open, the front screen is then next to the rear camera. And that's how they kind of

George: (00:13:23)
That's right. You have the device unfolded. On the outside, they will see the front screen with the animated character and the noises. And then you'll have the preview on the large inner screen. And so you kind of get the, once again, best of both worlds. I keep on saying that, but it truly is. You get to use this device in so many different ways.

Rachid: (00:13:39)
It's an amazing camera system and I'm wondering how hard is it to make that camera system just as good as in the other Pixel devices while you have the constraints of a foldable phone which in many ways needs to be even thinner when it's unfolded

George: (00:13:54)
It is extremely hard and I keep on saying that so that's the short answer, but the long answer is really it takes a lot of engineering to kind of do the assessments and areas where you can try to be creative to try to fit it within this body, but not only camera technology, but also within the architecture of the actual device.

So there's a lot of working between the system architects as well as the camera engineers to try to find this amazing space where all things kind of come together.

And so with this year, we were able to add the Macro Focus on the ultra wide to get those really close shots. That's a really tough task in a body like this, but the team was able to achieve that. Or we upgraded the front cameras to ensure that you got amazing 4K 60 stunning videos and face authentication on both displays. And that took immense effort to kind of fit those cameras within these nearly five millimeter body, when unfolded.

Rachid: (00:14:46)
I'm wondering what's the key thing you learned after the original Pixel Fold came out and people in the wild used it. What was sort of the key thing that maybe you didn't consider before, but you realized once you saw people use

George: (00:15:00)
There's so many, I'm just trying to pick one. Maybe I can pick two. The first one is we multitask more than we think we do. And multitasking actually is more than what the connotations of the word are. So when you hear multitasking, I'm going to be productive. I'm going to pound out an email and do a spreadsheet at the same time, which people don't do. But if you look at it, you multitask all the time.

I'll give you a great example. Me and my wife often, or I'm watching a movie or show on Pixel 9 Pro Fold and I'm like, I know that actress. And so I'll either stop the video and I'll go on Google and I'll try to search out who that actress is or better yet, I'll steal my wife's phone, right? And I'll do the same thing. But now you can actually just split screen both, watch the movie and try to figure out who that actress is and where you've seen them.

So just simple things like that, or while you want to keep a conversation going, but do something else. So we actually saw usage where people were multitasking way more than we thought. And so that's one of those things that we really looked at this device and how we could optimize for.

The second is people love their cameras. I know that's super obvious, but the thing is that we spent so much time focusing on this device and making sure that it gets super thin and that hinge felt amazing. And we focused on bringing the camera up to the pixel quality bar. But then we found people using the camera in completely different ways that we had never assumed. Tabletop cameras, things like that that we discussed last year, went completely through the roof. Rear camera selfie was completely through the roof. So there were all these different ways that people were using and gave us just new ideas on new features that we could build out. Great example of that is Made You Look.

Rachid: (00:16:37)
Absolutely. then Made You Look could be also an example for the following question, but also, well, the multitasking. means that, not only the hardware team needs to weigh in on this, you need to work closely, I suppose, with the Android team in order to make sure that that vision for multitasking actually comes to life in software as

George: (00:16:54)
Yes, that's right. There's a great partnership with our software counterparts. Obviously, looking at how people use the device, but also just thinking about how we use the device in areas that it could be more helpful. I'll give you a great example. In the future, we're working on something called app pairs or saved app pairs. We often find that people have two things that they want to do side by side together. A great one is usually reading a book and then potentially having a chat group going. And so you can actually save those two together, especially if you have quick access. You don't have to do the split screen. And that will be coming shortly in the fall. So we are looking at how people use this device. And there's great partnership to try to make these features even more useful for our fan base.

Rachid: (00:17:36)
George, we always like to ask our guests what is the top tip that our listeners should try once they get a Pixel 9 Pro Fold in their hands in this case. So what is the one thing you feel they should try once they have it.

George: (00:17:50)
Yeah, so the ultimate life hack that I found is trying to force myself to get more fun done with the Pixel 9 Pro Fold. And so here's my power user setup. I've been able to watch YouTube or Netflix. You can hear that I've said that quite a bit in this talk, in picture-in-picture mode while split-screening two apps. And so the way that this gets done is, I'll give you an example. I'll be watching a WNBA game on YouTube TV. You have picture in picture. And then I'll have a WhatsApp chat group going. And then I'll be playing Wordle. Real power users move here. And then the killer pro tip, I shouldn't be sharing this, but it needs to be done. It's to turn on live captions so you get the live play by play as well.

Rachid: (00:18:35)
That's mind -blowing. And that's a lot of things at the same time. And it will all go smoothly.

George: (00:18:41)
It does, yeah. And so I'm not focusing on all things, but obviously just want to keep abreast of all the most important things in my life, aside from my family.

Rachid: (00:18:50)
That is amazing. All the things you can do, potentially at once, with the Pixel 9 Pro Fold. George, thank you so much for joining us on the Made by Google podcast. For people who want to check out the new Pixel 9 Pro Fold, please go to the Google Store.

George:(00:19:02)
Thanks Rashid, I appreciate it.