Transcript

[00:00:01] Rachid Finge Welcome back to the Made by Google Podcast. My name is Rashid Finch. And over the next few weeks, I'm taking you out for coffee with some of my colleagues who work on Google's hardware and software. We already learned about Pixel's camera and then found out more about how we keep our users safe. If you missed those episodes, then do subscribe to our podcast now. Today, by the looks of things, we're talking about design and how it plays a huge role in sustainability. How do you create not one but a whole family of devices that look great together? A set of products that isn't only great now but for many years to come. And how can you make form and function work in harmony rather than against each other? It's these kinds of questions that I'll put to today's guest who's an expert on all these matters. Please welcome to the Made by Google Podcast, our director of Design for a Home Wearables and Color Material and finish Isabel Olsen. Isabelle. Welcome to the Made by Google podcast. Great to have you.

[00:01:06] Isabelle Olsson Thank you so much. Happy to be here.

[00:01:08] Rachid Finge So we're having sort of a European take over, I guess you being from Sweden and me from the Netherlands. I know you joined Google over a decade ago. How did you land the job at Google as a designer?

[00:01:18] Isabelle Olsson Such a good question. Actually go the long story of this short story, but I guess I'll try to summarize. I moved to the US to work at a design consultancy in San Francisco and that's when I kind of got my first experience with designing products in the tech world. Had previously I'd been designing furniture and jewelry and, you know, industrial designer by training, but hadn't been exposed to tech. And so that's when I got my first experience designing TVs and tablets and phones and all sorts of things. And a few years. And I did get contacted through LinkedIn by a recruiter from Google who said, you know, we're working on something pretty cool over here. I can't tell you what it is. I'm tired, you know, why don't you come and chat with the team? And so I thought, you know, I haven't didn't move across the Atlantic to not take risks. So I, I ended up having a chat and met some really interesting, smart people and I had no idea what they were doing was like, Are you an engineering scientist? Are you a designer? Nobody would tell me what they were doing or what I was going to be working on, but I had some great conversations and decided to to join Google X at that point.

[Meet the Googler]

[00:02:33] Rachid Finge Today's guest has been with Google for over a decade, working on design for many of our products. Once a designer of furniture and jewelry at Google, Isabelle Olsson started working on a pair of glasses, if you remember those. Today she works on hearables like pixel buds, pro nest devices like nest Wi-Fi pro and the pixel watch. Now, too, it's fascinating to hear what it feels like to design something that millions and millions of people use and how you design for longevity, not just today's trends. There's a lot to learn from today's conversation, including a lot of inspiration for those who are looking to enter the world of design themselves. I had a lot of fun talking to Isabelle and I hope you enjoyed our conversation. So is there anything similar between designing furniture and designing the products you work on today, or is that just a giant leap going from one topic to a completely different one?

[00:03:28] Isabelle Olsson You know, I think part of what I have really enjoyed is to make that connection, because I do think in general, just designers were problem solvers. And secondly, we're here to design products that fit into your life, whether it's making a chair comfortable to sit in or earbud to sit comfortably in your ear. So ultimately the parallels are endless, and I've been really excited about bringing in a more lifestyle focused approach into tech versus, you know, just designing black slabs with blue blinking lights. And so that's been part of the theme of my journey and designing products. So she had tons of overlap and inspiration that goes across and the process ultimately is quite similar. Regardless of if you're designing toilet paper or, you know, a converse piece of technology, ultimately you need to understand the problem you're solving and then work with a bunch of people to make it happen.

[00:04:27] Rachid Finge So we'll get to how you helped evolve Google's design over the last decade. But first I went onto your internal profile. Google found your official title as director of Design for Home Wearables and CMF. The first two I got CMF. I had to Google that its color material and finish it. Could you explain what that is? And basically then a bit more about what it is you do at Google with these topics?

[00:04:50] Isabelle Olsson Yeah, color material and finish is literally what it sounds like. It's designing what the colors and materials and finishes are for all of our products. So I have a chance to, together with the team, really unites the portfolio. I don't know if you saw some of the new products for launch this year, but ultimately they're designed as a family as well as individual products. And the way I think about it, it's almost like a bouquet of flowers. It's all coming together beautifully. But each plant or flower has its unique element, whether it's the color, the texture, the shape, the size. And then as the CMF team, we have to kind of find a way to bring that all together, almost like florists as well as designing each individual color material finished. And then on the materials side, we actually have a team of materials, scientists and engineers who go down to the chemistry level to define the materials so that we can develop more sustainable materials such as recycled textiles, glass, metals, and the list goes on.

[00:05:53] Rachid Finge And then what is the difference between material and finish? That doesn't seem as obvious to me so.

[00:06:00] Isabelle Olsson I'll give you a very concrete example. If you look at the Pixel seven and the Pixel seven pro for the seven, we have the circle near blasted aluminum that feels really silky and nice to the touch. And then for the pro we have a high Polish metal that makes it really kind of intriguing and have that shine. What's common between the two is that they both are made from recycled aluminum, but the finish is different, one is polished and one is zirconia blasted.

[00:06:29] Rachid Finge I see. All right. And then just latching on to the color part of what you do. And if people are wondering, is this the Isabelle that was on the made by Google Keynote a couple of weeks ago? She indeed is. And we have great colors for the new Pixel seven series, lemongrass, hazel chalk, charcoal, snow, obsidian. How do you come up with that color range? I'm assuming that's part if not a large part of your responsibility. Yeah.

[00:06:54] Isabelle Olsson We talk about it as an art and a science, because most of the colors that we've developed, we have to develop 2 to 3 years in advance. And so we have to really keep our fingers on the pulse, what's going on in culture, what's going on in adjacent industries, whether that's in fashion or furniture, automotive, even, or sportswear. We also in that process to inspire us, collect objects from all over the world. And so, in fact, the color material in finished studio is full of inspirational objects. So then when we start the process, we make these physical mood boards to try to inspire us and see where we want to go. And then we develop a palette for each year and usually we introduce one or two new colors and then many of the colors we continue year over year for that kind of continuity as well. But we always try to evolve where appropriate, but then keep some things that are still working, like our light neutrals, for example, our dark neutrals. And coral is a color we've had in our portfolio, I think since 2018. Yeah.

[00:07:59] Rachid Finge So is there like a checklist when you make these colors like, you know, you need a family of colors, I guess. What kind of things are you looking at when deciding which colors make it onto the shelves? Basically.

[00:08:11] Isabelle Olsson Yeah. It's, it's that both thinking about each individual product and what the product needs to either exude or do, as well as looking at the portfolio and seeing how things connect together when it comes to kind of a product range, we want to make sure that with a few colors we can reach and appeal to as many people as possible. So it's a very interesting process with a lot of prototyping with our colors. We do speak with customers and users across the world to get feedback and input because we notice too that in especially when you're designing for a home, for example, some countries prefer brighter and lighter colors. Some countries tend to have a preference for a darker colors. So there's a big variety there. So we always try to make sure we have a light neutral, a dark neutral, a warm pop and a cool pop. And obviously it was up to me we would have, you know, hundreds of color choices. But at the end of the day, that's not especially practical and it could lead you to kind of that decision paralysis as well. So we're trying to be really thoughtful about how many colors, what they are, but again, ultimately trying to create something that, you know, that there's something there for everyone.

[00:09:24] Rachid Finge So with Pixel seven and Pixel seven Pro, we went sort of in the I guess the greenish root lemongrass and pixel seven hazel, the special color for pixel seven pro any particular reason that we went into sort of the green you for this series.

[00:09:37] Isabelle Olsson I think following the pandemic and many of these products were designed during the pandemic we had to kind of lean into thinking about what do people need on this moment in time or coming out of this moment. And so we wanted to create both a color that was soothing and then also color that was uplifting, because I think we need to live in these both worlds. We need to we need to take care of ourselves, but we also need to find that optimism for the future. And so that's why we decided to have two different hero colors for the year. And Greens tend to be universally soothing but also bring that energy and connection to nature. So it was kind of trying to do a little bit of both.

[00:10:19] Rachid Finge Now, I'm not sure if this is true, Isabel, but I've been told that getting a manicure is an important part of testing colors. Is that actually the case?

[00:10:27] Isabelle Olsson Well, obviously, I can't speak for my team in that regard because I think everyone on the team has a unique process to kind of really lean into and live with our colors. So, you know, there are multiple ways of doing that. Obviously, we bring home our prototypes. We live with them. In fact, the studio I'm sitting in right now, this is the Nest Design Studio. We have couches and a TV and we're trying to create that almost home environment in our offices. And so there's so many different ways of being, I would say. Designing empathically for me personally. One. What you were alluding to earlier, one method that I've been using is actually painting my nails in certain color ways that we're thinking about doing. But there were not shrubs. And so what that really helps with, it's almost like, you know, you can walk around with a color chip with you all the time and so you can see what the color looks like in different, you know, lighting conditions outside, inside. Night, morning. I mean, I think we all know color really changes throughout the day and depending on what's the surroundings. And so a color that might look great in the light bursts, in the perfect lighting condition on a little chip may not carry over so well in our day to day life. And so that's why my nails are this like on the go color chip reference. And then it's also a way to kind of get a sense of, am I going to get tired of this really quickly? Because some colors may feel really great in a second, but then when you live with that, over time, you might feel like it doesn't have that longevity that we need from our product. So that's my personal kind of litmus test. And, you know, try it if you're thinking about remodeling your house or, you know, whatever fits into your life. But it's been a tool for me throughout the years.

[00:12:20] Rachid Finge It's great and I think I'm actually going to do that when we remodel the house. Definitely a great way to see the hues change day and nighttime. So, Isabel, let's switch from colors to shapes, I guess. And the pixel watch comes to mind. For me, it's a round watch, which in many ways isn't revolutionary, except perhaps when it comes to a smartwatch. So why did you decide to make it round?

[00:12:43] Isabelle Olsson I'll start with a silhouette and then I can go into more of the three dimensionality of it. I think we first of all, we do think that round is the shape of time, and it has been from the beginning of time. And ultimately, when we're designing to fit into your life, we felt like it was the right choice to reference that deep history of analog watches that have lived with us for centuries. That side also smartwatch. So we wanted to like pair that analog nature with something advanced that leans into the smartness of it. So that's where the 3D nature of the form comes in. So we have this continuous surface without any kind of external like metal bezel around, it's all you see and it is that screen. And so we wanted to combine, like I said, the analog nature of the round shape or the round silhouette with the 3D nature of the form. And so to create something that is both familiar and new at the same time.

[00:13:51] Rachid Finge So from what I heard, the final pixel watch that's in stores now looks pretty similar to the first concept drawing. So if you talk about that process and why, apparently we were pretty satisfied with one of the first concepts already.

[00:14:05] Isabelle Olsson We always go through, you know, hundreds and hundreds of designs and iterations. But with the pixel watch, we had this original aspiration of a seamless form inspired by a water droplet. There's something you need to just knows how to make beautiful things, so why not be inspired by it? So that's kind of where the ideas started. And then we've evolved and refined it over time. But we definitely had many, many, many concepts. But this is the idea that stuck in quite some time to develop it and make sure we can manufacture it and working with engineers and reliability and all sorts of cross-functional partners to actually make it real.

[Made by Numbers]

[00:14:48] Rachid Finge So Isabelle, we reached the part that is called Made by numbers where we ask our guests to bring a number that is important either to them or for the development of the product that they've been working on. We've seen large and large numbers. We started with half a million at half a billion, I should say, then went to 1.5 billion last week in episode two. So now wondering, Isabelle, what number did you bring for this episode?

[00:15:13] Isabelle Olsson So when it comes to design, our numbers are much smaller than that. That's good. But to us they're big and I would say the most important number is hundred hundred.

[00:15:27] Rachid Finge I'm curious, why would you pick 100?

[00:15:29] Isabelle Olsson I picked 100 because it's the recycled content of the aluminum that we're using in our phones and across the portfolio. We continue to evolve and refine our material development and choices to make sure that we're as thoughtful as possible. And so that's why I wanted to pick that number.

[00:15:50] Rachid Finge Well, that's a great segway into sustainability. And the first time I was like, Wow, how is that even possible? I think was with the second generation Google Nest Mini. Near the top of the device used to be plastic bottles and now it's some sort of fabric. Could you tell us a little bit about how you change a plastic bottle into basically a fabric top?

[00:16:11] Isabelle Olsson This textile is actually made out of recycled plastic and it's almost impossible to notice because you feel the textile and it's so soft and so smooth and so beautiful. But yeah, and the second generation, you know, we had a more traditional fabric again, custom developed to our color ways, the patterns and everything. But we thought, why can't the product both be beautiful and sustainable? So we set out to develop a textile that was identical in look and feel and performance to the original, but was made out of recycled plastic. Essentially what happens is you grind down the plastics that you have retrieved and then you turn it into little pellets, and then these pellets get extruded into thin thins and yarns, and then you weave or net or use it just how you've created another fabric. But again, that's a very simplified explanation I had to you had one of my material scientists on this call, but that's in a nutshell how the process works so great.

[00:17:19] Rachid Finge And it feels like the original, as you said. So talking about sustainability is that maybe one of the topics over the past decade or so that has come much more in focus when it comes to design?

[00:17:30] Isabelle Olsson Yeah, absolutely. And again, we're trying to take a very holistic approach to it as a company, obviously. But then also from a design lens perspective, we have, as I mentioned, you know, the focus on the ingredients level. How do we ensure that the ingredients we use are the most sustainable they can be? But then it's also how do we design for longevity? And when I say longevity, that's that's not only working together with our engineering team to make our products physically last longer, but how do you create designs that visually last longer, too? And, you know, part of that is why we have an updated design for many, you know, since the beginning, because the design stood the test of time and we don't want to create that tech FOMO where you feel like you always have to update the next one and the next one. And I think another example of that is when we came out with our Nest thermostat, which we came up with this idea of instead of having a traditional screen, we have a mirror. And what's beautiful about that is that it actually removes that visual bezel around the screen, which tends to be a tell what year something was produced. So you see your product, you see the bezels, and you're like, Oh, that was 2016, I better upgrade. But with a thermostat, for example, it's something that people may keep around in their home for ten years. So how do we ensure that we make material choices, informed choices that someone would be proud to keep on their wall? For a long time and we've been living with mirrors on our walls for centuries. Again, why not take inspiration from our context and design something that also visually last for the longer time? That's just part of our core philosophy, not only in design for better use of better ingredients, but is also designing for longevity, which also can take a more of an esthetic approach.

[00:19:26] Rachid Finge So this is the question I've been dying to ask you, and you do create things that millions of people use not just once, but hopefully for years and years. What does it feel like to have that responsibility and have probably that joy of doing so?

[00:19:42] Isabelle Olsson I think you said it in the question. It feels like a responsibility. That's how it feels. It's very exciting to have that responsibility. And that's why I'm always so interested in hearing from our consumers, from my family, from friends, and hearing how they're using the products, how does it work for them or how does it not work for them? And even the way that we do research, we try to actually get ahead of that and seeing how are people going to live with our products and how do they feel about them even before we released them. But, you know, you learn so much, of course, when when it's on the market. But yeah, I'd say the main feeling is a deep sense of responsibility.

[00:20:21] Rachid Finge And you mentioned all the way at the beginning of our conversation that there was this evolving sense of bringing more lifestyle in the products. I guess tech products that you mentioned used to be just black, sort of boring. How did that evolve and why was it important to do so? Make that change?

[00:20:36] Isabelle Olsson I keep longer thinking about how my parents call it tech stress, but, you know, obviously technology brings so much health into our lives. But then there's also that element sometimes of it, you know, taking our attention or making us stressed or, you know, not fitting into our lives. And it's that reminder of that. It doesn't quite fit in. And so. It's crazy when you think about how there is a furniture industry focused on designing furniture to find technology. So when we think about the media cabinets, for example, they're they're designed to, you know, hide away the stuff that isn't pleasant in our day to day lives. And so that's why it's important. We need to be able to use these things. They need to be simple to use. They need to be inviting to use for everyone. And so far, there are great examples of technology like that in the world, but there's so much examples of technology that doesn't quite get there. And I think we can do it. And I think we've shown that that it's possible. And so we have to keep at it. And we don't want to ask someone to not use these amazing, helpful features just because it wasn't comfortable or, you know, it didn't look. It's like take routers for examples. People shove them in cabinets because they're so unsightly. And so that's why we took it upon ourselves to try to design something that people would be proud to put out in the open. Because guess what? The Wi-Fi will work better. And so that idea of how, you know, the form helps the function is so critical. Another example is how we've developed this super comfortable stretch pants for our watch. And again, something that was inspired by the real world 3D knitted shoes. Like, they're comfortable, they're durable, they're stylish. Why can't a watch band do something similar? And turns out this watch band is so comfortable to sleep with, which helps you with sleep tracking. So again, they're so interrelated. And so the design and the design team's job is in support and service of people and the functionality that we can help bring.

[00:22:52] Rachid Finge That's so insightful and I never considered that immediate cabinet is sort of like a test for a designer, right? If your products disappear in there, probably something went wrong during the design process, which let's see if I actually learned something. So the finish is like kind of what the material looks like on the outside then, which gets me to nest Wi-Fi pro that we recently announced, which if I understand correctly, has a different, more glossy finish than the nest wi fi that came before it. Right. So just curious, like, why make the change? What was the decision behind that?

[00:23:24] Isabelle Olsson Yeah, I mean, this is where we go maybe more into the art side of the balance between art and science. But ultimately, we needed to create a form and a finish that people would be willing to put out next to their most treasured objects, whether it be a vase from your grandma or a stack of books or whatever you want to have out in the open. And so we started to look at exactly those objects. What do people put out in the open? What do they want to have there? And we started seeing all these beautiful ceramic and glass objects. So the original inspiration was this almost like glass sculpture and the glossy finish. And we experimented with both just to be transparent, but the glass finish just really helped. Or the glossy finish, I should say, really helped highlight that form and make it look like something that you wouldn't expect from a tech product. And there was a good litmus test the other day because I had someone walk into the design studio and again, this was before launch and we have this shelf as inspiration objects. And I was I was like, Oh yeah, and here is our new iPhone. It's like, where? Where I'm like, it's here like, oh, I thought that was an inspiration object. I thought that was a piece of glass. And so I was like, okay, that, that was our intent. And yeah, so that's a little bit the back story behind that. And the good thing too, we were able to achieve it without any post-processing. So it comes out in this finished right out of this tools. So no extra steps required. And so we always try to be thoughtful about kind of the process and manufacturing too. So there's a bit of pragmatism to it, but it started with this inspiration of Glass That's wonderful.

[Top tips for the road]

[00:25:11] Rachid Finge I can't wait to have at home and knowing also, you know, when design and form come together that the most beautiful rotor also should be the fastest one, because I'm putting it hopefully in a beautiful place in my home. Isabel, we came to Top Tips for the Road. What are your top tips for emerging designers? What would you tell them to maybe get one day to the position where you're in?

[00:25:38] Isabelle Olsson I have I've had so many tips because I've made so many mistakes up and see where do I start? First of all, be curious, like deeply curious to the point where you always listen. And I say that because I remember when I started my career, I was like, I have this great idea. And then I just told people about. Great idea. And then I was surprised that they didn't jump on it or nothing happened. I was like, That's why it was such a good idea. Like I told them and I showed them. And over time, I realized, it doesn't matter. You have to start by inspiring people first. You have to inspire people. Then you can influence them and then you can have impact. I have never been successful in any other order, so I think it starts with that inspiration and to inspire people, you have to actually have an understanding of where is where are they coming from, what are they thinking about, what problems are they're trying to solve? And so that comes back to that curiosity, so inspiring people with with a sense of curiosity for what they're trying to achieve. So that's key. It's not kind of coming into the room into like, I have a great idea, you should just do it, but truly being curious. And then I say the second piece is being curious about the world. And, you know, inspiration is truly everywhere. And instead of kind of baring yourself in your 3D CAD program or, you know, in front of your computer, if you're a designer of physical things, surround yourself with physical things and, you know, don't jump in immediately into the computer. But we often use water coloring, for example, because there is serendipity in that process and then beauty comes through that. So I'd say they were that would be my second tip. Surround yourself with beautiful things and be inspired by the real world.

[00:27:29] Rachid Finge Excellent. Isabel, thank you so much for everyone who wants to see Isabel's work. I suggest you go to the Google store and see it there. Get her work yourself. Thank you so much for joining the Made by Google podcast and what's great talking to you.

[00:27:43] Isabelle Olsson Thank you so much. Have a good one.

[00:27:45] Rachid Finge And that's it for today's episode. And boy, did we learn a lot if you didn't yet, please make sure to subscribe to the Made by Google podcast and learn even more as we go along our journey. There's a new episode on Thursday again. And next time out, we'll talk tenser our own system on a chip. Thanks so much for spending time with us and talk to you next week.